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Thread: Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles heel?

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    Wink Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles heel?

    Judging by the last few decades of press reportage that the various denominations of the Christian church have been receiving, it seems that one of their major problems is their frquent lapses into what is rightly termed sexual deviation. Islam gets bad press too, for obvious but not sexual reasons. What I wanted to ask was why out of all the major religions is Christianity the only seeming major player in the field of sexual perversions. It is typical, I suggest, of a religion riddled with the presumption of eternal justification that it will after the initial stages of euphoria-cum-hysteria to show its true colours in the form of paedophilia, adultery, homosexuality, fornication and others like extortion by means of fear, neglect of the poor and false prophecy/divination; but the pattern that persists is one predominantly of sexual perversity. It can not be celibacy resulting in frustration that engenders these sins in the Catholic church alone, for the Anglicans and other evangelicals have been known to practise these things who also practise the ceremony of marriage.
    What is it that makes the Christian church tick in its proverbial facial muscles; why does their one prime motivator seem to be that of procreation, by any means, including the violating of minors? Why do they believe above all others that they are exempt from or immune from secular law and free to commit whatever acts of indecency they choose-because they are under so-called grace? Is there a connection?
    Saint Paul to the Corinthian church (1 Corinthians 5:1-2)-
    "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might not rather be taken away from among you."
    And this still goes on today, no doubt. Just because we don't hear of it doesn't mean it isn't going on. That is why the press only reports a certain % of things, but what about what it doesn't report?
    What and where exactly is this Mystery of Iniquity if not among the Christians of all demoninations in our respective towns and cities and villages, without us realising it is going on in those "Power Meetings" behind closed doors: S*E*D*U*C*T*I*O*N A*N*D S*E*C*R*E*C*Y A*N*D S*A*L*V*A*T*I*O*N
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  2. #2
    Midas Guest

    Re: Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles h

    Certainly with respect to the Catholic Church I think a great deal of blame can be laid at the door of their policy of celibacy amongst their priests. It's unnatural and is almost guaranteed to result in one form or other of surreptitious means of sexual release. It's a policy which was introduced around the 3rd and 4th centuries and has stuck, for some indefinable reason, ever since.

  3. #3
    crazylilting Guest

    Re: Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles h

    The thing with any religion is that they want to create separation. A type of haves and have nots, a more then less then attitude. Several problems with that. The very act of doing such a thing in itself is immoral and is impossible. They neglect to take into account we are all human. It isn't about free will it is about being imperfect and thus cannot chop this trait our of our selves. Some times the kindest intentions can have a negative affect, does that make the act a kind act? No, but a religious person who is bound by a set of beliefs of what is right and wrong will see it as the right action and feel pleased with themselves for doing good. When they fail to live up to their standards it does put off those who have been punished by them for similar transgressions not because we think we are better but because we want such religious people to realize that they are no different then us. No better off because of their belief in god. No one wants to be treated as if they were some third world citizen and this is how religions treat everyone else, it's sickening really.

  4. #4
    Rizla Guest

    Re: Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles h

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    Certainly with respect to the Catholic Church I think a great deal of blame can be laid at the door of their policy of celibacy amongst their priests. It's unnatural and is almost guaranteed to result in one form or other of surreptitious means of sexual release. It's a policy which was introduced around the 3rd and 4th centuries and has stuck, for some indefinable reason, ever since.
    You have a very interesting point, and I'm sure this theory accounts for a percentage of 'deviancy' within the priesthood. I do of course use the word deviancy in it's loosest possible terms as what is deviant for a priest may be perfectly healthy for the rest of us, or at least acceptable.

    I think there is another theory which better explains why they have a problem with things like paedophilia:-
    If you are growing up in the Catholic faith and all of a sudden you find yourself having sexual urges which you know are quite frankly wrong by any of societies standards, there must be some weighing of the situation? I doubt that many pedophiles start lusting after children and say to themselves, "Hey, let's just go with the feeling!", I suspect that most know it is wrong and try to suppress it.
    And there you have the catholic church offering a career choice which which has suppression of all sexuality as one of it's features. They must think to themselves, "If priests can suppress it, so can I, especially if I become a priest."

    See what I mean?
    I'll be careful not to lump homosexuals in with kiddy-fiddlers, but the same must be true. The church has a taboo on homosexuality, it says it is wrong, if you have homosexual urges you feel you must suppress them and the priesthood seems like the place to go to suppress sexuality.

    On the other hand, if you are having 'normal' sexual urges, while the church still tells you you are sinning, you look around and think, "Hey, everyone is doing it, why should I take a priest seriously? what do they know about sex? They are celibate."

    The result is that a disproportionate number of pedophiles and people with paraphilias, as well as homosexuals are going to be drawn to the priesthood. They will bottle up their urges to the point that when they do fall off the wagon, they will do so in the most epic manner.

  5. #5
    Rizla Guest

    Re: Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles h

    Quote Originally Posted by crazylilting View Post
    The thing with any religion is that they want to create separation. A type of haves and have nots, a more then less then attitude. Several problems with that. The very act of doing such a thing in itself is immoral and is impossible. They neglect to take into account we are all human. It isn't about free will it is about being imperfect and thus cannot chop this trait our of our selves. Some times the kindest intentions can have a negative affect, does that make the act a kind act? No, but a religious person who is bound by a set of beliefs of what is right and wrong will see it as the right action and feel pleased with themselves for doing good. When they fail to live up to their standards it does put off those who have been punished by them for similar transgressions not because we think we are better but because we want such religious people to realize that they are no different then us. No better off because of their belief in god. No one wants to be treated as if they were some third world citizen and this is how religions treat everyone else, it's sickening really.
    Putting a taboo on things that we can't resist doing is a deliberate ploy!!! They know we will fail, and they know that we have to go back to the church for redemption and forgiveness. It's a neat trick.

    You'll notice that all the major religions put prohibitions on aspects of sex, eating and drinking. If I were going to design a new religion, this is one of the first things I would build in -- sexual prohibitions are especially effective -- baring in mind that in religion there is such a thing as a thought crime.

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    Re: Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles h

    The reason there is so much hypocrisy in the church over sins of a sexual nature - because the congregation is human. My understanding (not necessarily my personal beliefs) on this matter is that the bible is quite clear with regards to sex being exclusively enjoyed between two married heterosexual people, now regardless of how we feel on a secular moral level (if such a thing exist) if a person commits to Christ then they must ignore temptation and strive to be as Christlike as possible (without sin), there is much disagreement amongst denominations with regard to the gradation of sin, some believing that to dwell on a thought of committing sin is equal to having actually given in to a desire. This is not to say that a mistake, truly repented, cannot be forgiven.

    So having said all that I can only conclude that at times God must weep when he looks at his creation and sees the things that man does to each other in his name. A recent example of some people's (calling themselves Christians) hypocrisy would be the case of Tina Anderson, allegedly raped at 15 by a fellow congregation member at Trinity Baptist Church NH, she was forced to confess her part in the sin and her resulting pregnancy was hidden and she was sent away from her family in order to cover the crime perpetrated against her. Story found here; as I say God weeps, but lest we forget so do many many good Christians who "walk the walk as well as talking the talk".
    "The people who have sacrificed their view in order to get to the top have very often left no footprints in the sands of time." Tony Benn

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    Re: Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles h

    Quote Originally Posted by crazylilting View Post
    The thing with any religion is that they want to create separation. A type of haves and have nots, a more then less then attitude. Several problems with that. The very act of doing such a thing in itself is immoral and is impossible. They neglect to take into account we are all human. It isn't about free will it is about being imperfect and thus cannot chop this trait our of our selves. Some times the kindest intentions can have a negative affect, does that make the act a kind act? No, but a religious person who is bound by a set of beliefs of what is right and wrong will see it as the right action and feel pleased with themselves for doing good. When they fail to live up to their standards it does put off those who have been punished by them for similar transgressions not because we think we are better but because we want such religious people to realize that they are no different then us. No better off because of their belief in god. No one wants to be treated as if they were some third world citizen and this is how religions treat everyone else, it's sickening really.
    Very good post, and I pretty much agree.
    The reason I agree is because I compartmentalise religion against faith in Christ, which are different things.
    Christ did not say that we need to "get religion", He said that "you MUST be born again".
    @ Rizla - the church has no biblical authority to forgive anyone's sins.

  8. #8
    Midas Guest

    Re: Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles h

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizla View Post
    You have a very interesting point, and I'm sure this theory accounts for a percentage of 'deviancy' within the priesthood. I do of course use the word deviancy in it's loosest possible terms as what is deviant for a priest may be perfectly healthy for the rest of us, or at least acceptable.

    I think there is another theory which better explains why they have a problem with things like paedophilia:-
    If you are growing up in the Catholic faith and all of a sudden you find yourself having sexual urges which you know are quite frankly wrong by any of societies standards, there must be some weighing of the situation? I doubt that many pedophiles start lusting after children and say to themselves, "Hey, let's just go with the feeling!", I suspect that most know it is wrong and try to suppress it.
    And there you have the catholic church offering a career choice which which has suppression of all sexuality as one of it's features. They must think to themselves, "If priests can suppress it, so can I, especially if I become a priest."

    See what I mean?
    Yes, I see what you mean, and undoubtedly there are some people who go into the church with this as one of their motivations, but it is an immensely complex subject which perhaps involves, amongst other things, a chemical imbalance in the brain which triggers non-normal thought patterns.

    I'll be careful not to lump homosexuals in with kiddy-fiddlers, but the same must be true. The church has a taboo on homosexuality, it says it is wrong, if you have homosexual urges you feel you must suppress them and the priesthood seems like the place to go to suppress sexuality.
    Quite rightly too, homosexuality and paedophilia are two totally different things, the former being either genetic (a theory I'm not struck on) or hormonal in respect of the person's mother at a particularly critical point in foetal development (the preferred version), the latter being, according to some of the latest research, biochemical. But whatever the reasons, yes, for some the priesthood is certainly an organised way of suppressing sexuality.

    On the other hand, if you are having 'normal' sexual urges, while the church still tells you you are sinning, you look around and think, "Hey, everyone is doing it, why should I take a priest seriously? what do they know about sex? They are celibate."

    The result is that a disproportionate number of pedophiles and people with paraphilias, as well as homosexuals are going to be drawn to the priesthood. They will bottle up their urges to the point that when they do fall off the wagon, they will do so in the most epic manner.
    Well, it certainly seems to be the case, and I would have thought it's something that Catholics in particular should deal with very promptly, but 1,600 years of tradition in a very traditional organisation seems to be as effective as a stone wall as far as stopping change is concerned.

  9. #9
    Midas Guest

    Re: Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles h

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Christ did not say that we need to "get religion", He said that "you MUST be born again".
    Would being brought back to life after being cryogenically frozen count?

    Sorry Barry, that was just too tempting to resist

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    Re: Is evangelical Christianity's besetting sin sexual immorality also its achilles h

    I don't know what makes a paedo a paedo, but I think it has its roots in religious ceremony of some kind or other. As well as the things you have all already discussed, I think one or more of its contributing factors, at least to some extent, has got to be the presumption of atoned for Christians to give outlet to their sexual urges because the salvation provided for by the bloodied symbolic Christ is a guarantee against further conviction and of a cover for their mistakes ensuring a safe carriage to heaven when God's children sin. That is not to say that when say 10 minutes or more ago Opinionated said to one of her kids "Go and get washed" let's just say that she was not aware of the tendency she might have to usher kids from her presence when dealing with delicate subjects like this from a religious perspex. But I would not say that religion is the restraining force but the forgiving insurance plan for such deeds.
    As for homs, I would say it is not their genetix that are the problem but their genitals and how they choose to use them. Does not the Bible speak of the "filth of men" in letters like the first of Romans, showing how religion has no bearing at all on the behaviour of such men and women but presumption governs it. Look at the liberal theology we have suffered for decades under the guise of Christianity. Homs decide at puberty which direction they are inclined to travel, much like a degree course or a career choice I suppose, and it has nothing to do with that innocent little infant lying in a cot who has not yet even developed its sexual organs. Furthermore it is not determinism that makes a hom a hom any more than a P a P but later post-puberty factors, and one of these is religious presumption.
    The dilemma that Josef Ratzinger Benedict XVI has to face is whether he now decides that the papal power has the ability to atone for the sins of ifs clergy-as the pope cannot he grant indulgences for sins depending upon whether they are original or mortal-or whether it shall admit it has no power to while saving itself from the disgrace of pardoning its sexual offences without the prompt discipline it may require. After all, it has made a recent apology at least for the history of bloodshed it is notorious for under Ratzinger. Ratzinger is the new Catholic Gorbachev! Catholicism is undergoing its own Glasnost/Perestroika!
    Reading maketh the man.

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