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Thread: The end of the Lib Dems.

  1. #1
    gypster Guest

    Angry The end of the Lib Dems.

    A great opportunity to form a centre left coalition has been missed.. By doing a deal with the Tories Clegg has blown away his ''honest'' persona and now appears as self centred as the rest. The Tories will inevitably stitch him up and thousands of Lib Dem supporters will turn elsewhere. This whole thing stinks and politicians and politics remains mired in the mud.

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    Re: The end of the Lib Dems.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypster View Post
    A great opportunity to form a centre left coalition has been missed.. By doing a deal with the Tories Clegg has blown away his ''honest'' persona and now appears as self centred as the rest. The Tories will inevitably stitch him up and thousands of Lib Dem supporters will turn elsewhere. This whole thing stinks and politicians and politics remains mired in the mud.
    I personally think that Clegg is simply being pragmatic and would rather have something than nothing, which he would have done in any deal with Labour. Whether his supporters agree with him or not remains to be seen, but he does hold a strong controlling card in that without his support, the Tories won't even be able to start many of the necessary reforms. It's going to be very much a two-way thing for the next couple of years, but regardless of whoever is in power, there'll be tough times ahead trying to claw back the trillion pounds the Labour government blew away!
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

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    Re: The end of the Lib Dems.

    Some part of my vote was anti-tory but I was mainly voting Liberal Democrat for things like sub 10k tax break, electoral reform, opposing inheritance tax cuts, etc and now there is a chance that a comprimise might enable this stuff to happen. There is nothing dishonest about forming this coalition government (whether he is selling out or not may remain to be seen though), lib dems have always been supportive of the notion of coalition governments (which goes hand in hand with PR, particularly STV). Even in this campaign they said in black and white that they would work with who the electorate says they must work with.

    At the end of the day if you vote that negatively then you may as well go back to labour and support the incredibly successful political system we have had for so long where one party controls everyone

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    Re: The end of the Lib Dems.

    Quote Originally Posted by joethfc View Post
    At the end of the day if you vote that negatively then you may as well go back to labour and support the incredibly successful political system we have had for so long where one party controls everyone
    OK, if, and it's a big if, we had one party which could always count on a significant majority support from the electorate, a one party system mightn't be so bad. However in practice I think pigs might fly first, which is why we desperately need PR and a permanent coalition government which will have the long term interests of the country and its people at heart, rather than the short-term party-political interests we've seen of late, especially from Labour!
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

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    Re: The end of the Lib Dems.

    Nick Clegg has just had to do what very few liberal leaders have had to, and certainly none in the current history of the LIberal Democrats, he has had to make a decision, no more standing in third place shouting the odds. In what was obviously a very tense and difficult decision, i think he has done the right thing, if the seats had allowed it i think he would have gone in with the left wing and had a go at it, the rainbow alliance was never going to be strong or stable option, too many small narrow focus parties would have led to nothing but indecision and another general election. The basic fact is that the New Labour Project has brought the UK to edge of bankruptcy, combined with scandals over expenses, two unpopular wars (one of which was illegal) Gordon slipping into the job and calling and cancelling an election, so for Clegg to allow Brown to remain in office would i think have been more unacceptable to the public and i feel would have definitely finished the Libs as a political force. The new arrangement has steadied the markets, and allows Cameron to ignore the extreme right of the party and hopefully start to bring the country back round onto an even keel. It is going to be painful for us all but lets not forget Labour were in power for Thirteen years and we are now in 160 BILLION + of debt our politicians need to start putting the country and us their employers first and dogma second. If the current situation leads to the end of politics as we know it then good they have brought it on themselves, and if they can make this coalition work then they will find it harder the longer it lasts to deny PR as a stable option.
    Just because i'm paranoid, doesn't mean their not after me!!!

  6. #6
    Major Sinic Guest

    Re: The end of the Lib Dems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooby View Post
    Nick Clegg has just had to do what very few liberal leaders have had to, and certainly none in the current history of the LIberal Democrats, he has had to make a decision, no more standing in third place shouting the odds. In what was obviously a very tense and difficult decision, i think he has done the right thing, if the seats had allowed it i think he would have gone in with the left wing and had a go at it, the rainbow alliance was never going to be strong or stable option, too many small narrow focus parties would have led to nothing but indecision and another general election. The basic fact is that the New Labour Project has brought the UK to edge of bankruptcy, combined with scandals over expenses, two unpopular wars (one of which was illegal) Gordon slipping into the job and calling and cancelling an election, so for Clegg to allow Brown to remain in office would i think have been more unacceptable to the public and i feel would have definitely finished the Libs as a political force. The new arrangement has steadied the markets, and allows Cameron to ignore the extreme right of the party and hopefully start to bring the country back round onto an even keel. It is going to be painful for us all but lets not forget Labour were in power for Thirteen years and we are now in 160 BILLION + of debt our politicians need to start putting the country and us their employers first and dogma second. If the current situation leads to the end of politics as we know it then good they have brought it on themselves, and if they can make this coalition work then they will find it harder the longer it lasts to deny PR as a stable option.
    A succinct and accurate view of the situation in my view. Just one point. I wish our debt was only 160 billion. Our public debt is actually closer to 800 billion. The 160 billion or so refers to the last year's budget deficit only!

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    Re: The end of the Lib Dems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scooby View Post
    Nick Clegg has just had to do what very few liberal leaders have had to, and certainly none in the current history of the LIberal Democrats, he has had to make a decision, no more standing in third place shouting the odds. In what was obviously a very tense and difficult decision, i think he has done the right thing, if the seats had allowed it i think he would have gone in with the left wing and had a go at it, the rainbow alliance was never going to be strong or stable option, too many small narrow focus parties would have led to nothing but indecision and another general election. The basic fact is that the New Labour Project has brought the UK to edge of bankruptcy, combined with scandals over expenses, two unpopular wars (one of which was illegal) Gordon slipping into the job and calling and cancelling an election, so for Clegg to allow Brown to remain in office would i think have been more unacceptable to the public and i feel would have definitely finished the Libs as a political force. The new arrangement has steadied the markets, and allows Cameron to ignore the extreme right of the party and hopefully start to bring the country back round onto an even keel. It is going to be painful for us all but lets not forget Labour were in power for Thirteen years and we are now in 160 BILLION + of debt our politicians need to start putting the country and us their employers first and dogma second. If the current situation leads to the end of politics as we know it then good they have brought it on themselves, and if they can make this coalition work then they will find it harder the longer it lasts to deny PR as a stable option.

    Capitalist crooks have put every major economy in the world in debt, even the so called frugal countries are up to their neck in it. I didn't hear the alarm bells ringing from the Tory benches when all this was supposed to have happend. Lets hope that people remember the warning by Alistair Darling about cutting to soon and too fast to satisfy a Tory dogma, and when unemployment goes over the 3mn mark and we're back into recession.
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

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    Re: The end of the Lib Dems.

    THEY COULD HAVE HAD PR.... PR!!!!!!!

    BUT NO, I GUESS THEY HAVE TO GO WITH THE TORIES

    ELSE THEY MAY BE WITH THE GREENS AND THE SNP AND PARTY OF WALES

    I guess Gordan messed it up

  9. #9
    Major Sinic Guest

    Re: The end of the Lib Dems.

    Quote Originally Posted by radical change View Post
    THEY COULD HAVE HAD PR.... PR!!!!!!!

    BUT NO, I GUESS THEY HAVE TO GO WITH THE TORIES

    ELSE THEY MAY BE WITH THE GREENS AND THE SNP AND PARTY OF WALES

    I guess Gordan messed it up
    I would be intrigued to know just how the Liberal Democrats 'could have had PR'. They certainly wouldn't have got it with a 'rainbow coalition'. Labour have recently stated that they will not even support the Liberal Conservative Coalition Government in the proposed referendum on AV, despite incorporating the promise of a referendum on AV, at the last minute in their manifesto.

    But then we know what Labour's promises about referendums are worth!!

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    Re: The end of the Lib Dems.

    I just can't understand people these days....

    The UK is in a shambles and i think the coalition is tackling things head on. I don't think it would be right for any one party to put forth their own agenda's, this is a time to get things sorted out, plain and simple. Let them get on with sorting it out. Once they've got things in hand then it is the time to look at special interests. If fixing the countries mess is a way of blowing one's honest persona i say good. We don't need persona to fix things we need people who will work together to the common good of all.

    Here's some plain talk, since it is the new way of being diplomatic, quit your whining, pull up your sleeves and do your part.

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