Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 93

Thread: Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,043
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

    I was ejected from Sunday school when I was six because I asked questions the priest simply did not wish to answer...I was a kid, I knew bugger all and simply asked a couple of question...hey ho, he put off and the rest is history as they say...but I have an enquiring mind and I have actually read the Bible several times, as I firmly believe that to criticise something you have to understand it..

    BUT, and here lies the rub, I have never been able to get the answer to these questions, even when I have known Catholic, Evangelical, Anglican and Baptist Ministers/priests over the years and I have had chats with them on the subject..

    Perhaps someone can answer the following.-

    1. God created the Universe, he created everything in it including the Arc Angels, of which Lucifer was one. He and God had a falling out and Lucifer went off on his own. As God created him, why did he not simply snuff him out as he did with Humans?
    2. God flooded the world because people actually used the free will he gave them to not follow him. As a result he killed all but those on the Ark..Well surely not all were guilty, the children and unborn where innocent at least, and I am sure there were more adults for than against him...so surely this is a clear case of God perpetrating Genocide?
    3. Why is that God tells us we must follow him or suffer the consequences, but Lucifer gives a choice? Is God a dictator and Lucifer a Democrat?
    4. Why does God never prove his existence? Appearing in the middle of a battle field as a 50ft high figure telling everyone to stop fighting would pretty much do it and it's safe to say even the most sceptical would perhaps have a rethink...
    5. Why do rapists and paedophiles exist...if God is all knowing and seeing..all he would have to do is plant a thought in their head it is wrong, or get someone to turn left instead of right...It isn't hard and the free will argument holds no water or merit.
    6. How the hell did Moses come down the hill on a Triump, and was it a Bonnerville??


    There are numerous questions I have, but will hold fire there...

    Jim
    Left for a place without a childish and spite filled Moderator with a Hitler complex. A place of democracy and common sense where questions can be asked with a Mod getting their knickers in a twist because they lack confidence and are on a power trip.

    bet this gets edited. Take care all the decent people here. have fun.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Rural South Midlands
    Posts
    5,493
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Blog Entries
    18

    Re: Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Franklin View Post
    I was ejected from Sunday school when I was six because I asked questions the priest simply did not wish to answer...I was a kid, I knew bugger all and simply asked a couple of question...hey ho, he put off and the rest is history as they say...but I have an enquiring mind and I have actually read the Bible several times, as I firmly believe that to criticise something you have to understand it..

    BUT, and here lies the rub, I have never been able to get the answer to these questions, even when I have known Catholic, Evangelical, Anglican and Baptist Ministers/priests over the years and I have had chats with them on the subject..

    Perhaps someone can answer the following.-

    1. God created the Universe, he created everything in it including the Arc Angels, of which Lucifer was one. He and God had a falling out and Lucifer went off on his own. As God created him, why did he not simply snuff him out as he did with Humans?
    2. God flooded the world because people actually used the free will he gave them to not follow him. As a result he killed all but those on the Ark..Well surely not all were guilty, the children and unborn where innocent at least, and I am sure there were more adults for than against him...so surely this is a clear case of God perpetrating Genocide?
    3. Why is that God tells us we must follow him or suffer the consequences, but Lucifer gives a choice? Is God a dictator and Lucifer a Democrat?
    4. Why does God never prove his existence? Appearing in the middle of a battle field as a 50ft high figure telling everyone to stop fighting would pretty much do it and it's safe to say even the most sceptical would perhaps have a rethink...
    5. Why do rapists and paedophiles exist...if God is all knowing and seeing..all he would have to do is plant a thought in their head it is wrong, or get someone to turn left instead of right...It isn't hard and the free will argument holds no water or merit.
    6. How the hell did Moses come down the hill on a Triump, and was it a Bonnerville??


    There are numerous questions I have, but will hold fire there...

    Jim
    A very simple answer Jim; there isn't such a thing as a god outside of the human mind, period.
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

  3. #3
    psyche Guest

    Re: Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

    if i had a sunday school Jim, all my students would get to hear the parable of hank

    The Parable of Hank

    This morning I heard a knock at my door. When I answered the door, I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first.

    John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

    Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

    Me: "Pardon me? What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?"

    John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll kick the **** out of you."

    Me: "What?! Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

    John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass."

    Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why ..."

    Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

    Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but ..."

    John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

    Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

    Mary: "Oh yes, all the time!"

    Me: "And has he given you a million dollars?"

    John: "Well no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town."

    Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

    Mary: "You can't leave town until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money and he kicks the **** out of you."

    Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

    John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

    Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

    John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

    Me: "So what makes you think he'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

    Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave town. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street."

    Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

    John: "Hank has certain connections."

    Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

    John: "But it's a million dollars - can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass, he'll kick the **** out of you."

    Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him ..."

    Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

    Me: "Then how do you kiss his ass?"

    John: "Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

    Me: "Who's Karl?"

    Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

    Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

    John: "Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

    John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on From the desk of Karl letterhead. There were eleven items listed:


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From the desk of KARL:

    Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
    Use Alcohol in moderation.
    Kick the **** out of people who aren't like you.
    Eat right.
    Hank dictated this list himself.
    The moon is made of green cheese.
    Everything Hank says is right.
    Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
    Don't drink.
    Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
    Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the **** out of you.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Me: "This would appear to be written on Karl's letterhead."

    Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

    Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

    John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

    Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

    Mary: "Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people."

    Me: "I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the **** out of people just because they're different?"

    Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

    Me: "How do you figure that?"

    Mary: "Item 7 says, 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

    Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

    John: "No way! Item 5 says, 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says, 'Use alcohol in moderation,' item 4 says, 'Eat right,' and item 8 says, 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true too."

    Me: "But 9 says 'Don't drink,' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

    John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2. 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

    Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock ..."

    Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from outer space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

    Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

    John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

    Me: "We do?"

    Mary: "Of course we do, item 5 says so."

    Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic. That's no different than saying 'Hank's right because he says he's right.'"

    John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking!"

    Me: "But ... oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

    Mary blushes.

    John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

    Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

    John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

    Me: "No relish? No mustard?"

    Mary looks positively stricken.

    John: [shouting] "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

    Me: "So, a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

    Mary: [sticking her fingers in her ears] "I am not listening to this! La la la la la la la la!"

    John: "That's disgusting! Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that ..."

    Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

    Mary faints. John catches her.

    John: "Well, if I'd known you were one of those, I wouldn't have wasted my time! When Hank kicks the **** out of you, I'll be there, counting my money and laughing! I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater!"

    With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,043
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

    Thanks Psyche...very funny...
    Left for a place without a childish and spite filled Moderator with a Hitler complex. A place of democracy and common sense where questions can be asked with a Mod getting their knickers in a twist because they lack confidence and are on a power trip.

    bet this gets edited. Take care all the decent people here. have fun.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,043
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    A very simple answer Jim; there isn't such a thing as a god outside of the human mind, period.
    100% agree with that..
    Left for a place without a childish and spite filled Moderator with a Hitler complex. A place of democracy and common sense where questions can be asked with a Mod getting their knickers in a twist because they lack confidence and are on a power trip.

    bet this gets edited. Take care all the decent people here. have fun.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    In a pub
    Posts
    7,514
    Thanks
    737
    Thanked 759 Times in 585 Posts

    Re: Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

    Gods were created to control the masses.To put the frightners on people ,as a warning not to step out of line even when out of sight because god is watching.

    Quite a good idea realy and without god society would probably not have evolved as it did. When this all started who knows .The current main religions of the west all started in the middle east,looking at that bunch of fruitcakes says enough about it all for me.

    And anyway if there was a god Moses would have been riding a Harley

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    U.K.
    Posts
    4,806
    Thanks
    261
    Thanked 373 Times in 283 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Franklin View Post
    I was ejected from Sunday school when I was six because I asked questions the priest simply did not wish to answer...I was a kid, I knew bugger all and simply asked a couple of question...hey ho, he put off and the rest is history as they say...but I have an enquiring mind and I have actually read the Bible several times, as I firmly believe that to criticise something you have to understand it..

    BUT, and here lies the rub, I have never been able to get the answer to these questions, even when I have known Catholic, Evangelical, Anglican and Baptist Ministers/priests over the years and I have had chats with them on the subject..

    Perhaps someone can answer the following.-
    OK I'll give it a go, please bear in mind that I actually have a hard time reconciling some of these questions with my own personal faith and you're not going to be "won over" - but it is not my intention to try anyway! I will however take the post on face value and try to answer with my limited (human) understanding.

    [LIST=1][*]God created the Universe, he created everything in it including the Arc Angels, of which Lucifer was one. He and God had a falling out and Lucifer went off on his own. As God created him, why did he not simply snuff him out as he did with Humans?
    In order for free will to exist there has to be good and bad, as such evil needs to be personified - hence the existence of Satan.
    [*]God flooded the world because people actually used the free will he gave them to not follow him. As a result he killed all but those on the Ark..Well surely not all were guilty, the children and unborn where innocent at least, and I am sure there were more adults for than against him...so surely this is a clear case of God perpetrating Genocide?
    Oooh hard one and I am one of those people who interprets most bible stories as allegorical. However (jump in Barry anytime you can....), the "justification" for the death of innocents is traditionally along the lines of original sin making no one truly innocent (hard to swollow I know) also the bible says that it took Noah 120 years to build the ark (seems a reasonable amount of time to change one's ways), in that time he preached a warning to the people who chose to ignore it.
    [*]Why is that God tells us we must follow him or suffer the consequences, but Lucifer gives a choice? Is God a dictator and Lucifer a Democrat?
    The existence of The devil and our freedom to reject God is the choice that God has provided us.
    [*]Why does God never prove his existence? Appearing in the middle of a battle field as a 50ft high figure telling everyone to stop fighting would pretty much do it and it's safe to say even the most sceptical would perhaps have a rethink...
    Because that would negate the need for faith, without which our freedom is limited.
    [*]Why do rapists and paedophiles exist...if God is all knowing and seeing..all he would have to do is plant a thought in their head it is wrong, or get someone to turn left instead of right...It isn't hard and the free will argument holds no water or merit.
    Why does free choice argument hold no water? Without evil and our choice to follow it there is no freedom.

    [*]How the hell did Moses come down the hill on a Triump, and was it a Bonnerville??
    fbnlolfmtsosglwtciroc (ask Doc) "in" triumph!! Although that would be cool, and suddenly in my mind Moses looks a lot like Steve McQueen
    "The people who have sacrificed their view in order to get to the top have very often left no footprints in the sands of time." Tony Benn

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Pixels on your screen
    Posts
    6,687
    Thanks
    1,012
    Thanked 950 Times in 699 Posts

    Re: Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Franklin View Post

    1. God created the Universe, he created everything in it including the Arc Angels, of which Lucifer was one. He and God had a falling out and Lucifer went off on his own. As God created him, why did he not simply snuff him out as he did with Humans?
    I can't resist having a go at some of these.
    How I wish I knew the mind of God better.
    How I wish I knew all the answers!
    Thanks for moving this into a forum I am prepared to participate in.
    Answer 1:
    Because He thought life would be more interesting and challenging, to find another way?


    2. God flooded the world because people actually used the free will he gave them to not follow him. As a result he killed all but those on the Ark..Well surely not all were guilty, the children and unborn where innocent at least, and I am sure there were more adults for than against him...so surely this is a clear case of God perpetrating Genocide?

    God regretted making man (Genesis 6 verse 6). Does the creator not have the right of disposal of his creations?


    3. Why is that God tells us we must follow him or suffer the consequences, but Lucifer gives a choice? Is God a dictator and Lucifer a Democrat?
    I'm not sure of Lucifer's manifesto - where have you come across it?
    God is a jealous God (Exodus 20 verse 5) and wants people to have no other Gods but him.

    4. Why does God never prove his existence? Appearing in the middle of a battle field as a 50ft high figure telling everyone to stop fighting would pretty much do it and it's safe to say even the most sceptical would perhaps have a rethink...
    God proved His existence by coming to earth as Jesus Christ. He made the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the dead were raised and still the Pharisees still asked him for 'a sign'.
    Mark 8 vv 11-12. He then was crucified and was raised from the dead after 3 nights in a tomb, after predicting His own death and resurrection. During the end times what you are suggesting will happen, according to prophecy the Arch Angel Michael will stand up. (Daniel 12)


    5. Why do rapists and paedophiles exist...if God is all knowing and seeing..all he would have to do is plant a thought in their head it is wrong, or get someone to turn left instead of right...It isn't hard and the free will argument holds no water or merit.
    Life is a battle between good and evil. Some prefer evil to good. Some prefer good to evil. Some simply do not know the difference. However none of us are truly good, we have all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God - and continue to do so (Romans 3 verse 23).
    6. How the hell did Moses come down the hill on a Triump, and was it a Bonnerville??
    No, it was David's triumph that echoed through the valley.
    Save us all £22,000,000 a day. Leave the EU.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Rural South Midlands
    Posts
    5,493
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Blog Entries
    18

    Re: Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

    Quote Originally Posted by Opinionated View Post
    OK I'll give it a go, please bear in mind that I actually have a hard time reconciling some of these questions with my own personal faith ...

    [ ... ]

    Oooh hard one and I am one of those people who interprets most bible stories as allegorical.
    Maybe slightly off-topic with this one, but I find it very difficult to see any way to reconcile 'faith' with the statement that you find most of the bible allegorical. Surely if you accept the latter, you are forced to conclude that 'the word of god' as expressed in the bible is simply an expression of man's own view of his place in the world - particularly bearing in mind man's fairly primitive stage of understanding of the world around him and his social development when the bible was written. Surely the corollary of this is therefore that if you accept that 'god' is a manifestation of man's own mind, what is there left to have faith in - in a religious sense that is?
    Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant only an intellectual could ignore it - Thomas Sowell

  10. #10
    at946 Guest

    Re: Religion:- Perhaps someone can answer this..

    As I get closer to death I find myself saying I don't know and does it matter ,' cos nothing exists outside the mind.

Similar Threads

  1. I have an answer!!!
    By Robin Goodfellow in forum War, Conflicts & Terrorism Forum
    Replies: 532
    Last Post: 18-08-2011, 02:59 PM
  2. Is P.R. Really the Answer?
    By Quijote's Politics in forum United Kingdom Politics & Political Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 30-04-2011, 12:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •